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	<title>Comments on: A Tree Falls in the Woods: Avatar as the First &#8220;Post-9/11&#8243; Film</title>
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	<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/</link>
	<description>It&#039;s Devan Goldstein</description>
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		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4821</link>
		<dc:creator>Nordic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4821</guid>
		<description>Ok, thanks, Devan!

A video and text summary of the Lone Gunmen episode can be found here:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_lonegumen.html

Please also have a look at this:

http://imagining911.blogspot.com/2008/11/clues-are-right-in-front-of-your-eyes_11.html

As you can see, the destruction of the Twin Towers had actually been thematized very extensively prior to 9/11 in popular culture. Some of the resemblances to real events are truly fascinating, even mind-boggling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, thanks, Devan!</p>
<p>A video and text summary of the Lone Gunmen episode can be found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_lonegumen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.prisonplanet.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_lonegumen.html</a></p>
<p>Please also have a look at this:</p>
<p><a href="http://imagining911.blogspot.com/2008/11/clues-are-right-in-front-of-your-eyes_11.html" rel="nofollow">http://imagining911.blogspot.com/2008/11/clues-are-right-in-front-of-your-eyes_11.html</a></p>
<p>As you can see, the destruction of the Twin Towers had actually been thematized very extensively prior to 9/11 in popular culture. Some of the resemblances to real events are truly fascinating, even mind-boggling.</p>
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		<title>By: devan</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4818</link>
		<dc:creator>devan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4818</guid>
		<description>Hi, Nordic -- Sorry; I&#039;m happy to approve your comments. I&#039;ve just been away from the site for a few days. (And not likely to catch up this weekend.) I&#039;ll look forward to reading them next week.
Best,
Devan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Nordic &#8212; Sorry; I&#8217;m happy to approve your comments. I&#8217;ve just been away from the site for a few days. (And not likely to catch up this weekend.) I&#8217;ll look forward to reading them next week.<br />
Best,<br />
Devan</p>
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		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4817</link>
		<dc:creator>Nordic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4817</guid>
		<description>Hi Devan, I found the exact quotes in http://www.foxscreenings.com/media/pdf/JamesCameronAVATAR.pdf

* * *

GRACE
They bulldozed a sacred site on purpose,
to trigger a response. They’re
fabricating this war to get what they
want.

NORM
I can’t believe that.

JAKE
Yup. That’s how it’s done. When people
are sitting on shit you want, you make
them your enemy. Then you’re justified in taking it.

* * *

And as already noted:

QUARITCH
Our only security lies in preemptive
attack. We will fight terror
with terror.

* * *

I incorrectly remembered that the &quot;make them your enemy&quot; sentence was said by the evil colonel.

P.S. I understand if you don&#039;t wish to publish my last lengthy reflections on 9/11. More on topic, however, was my comment about what I&#039;ve read may be a good proportion of Hollywood luminaries entertaining &quot;conspiracy views&quot; about 9/11, and I&#039;d certainly be interested in reading your thoughts about the pre-9/11 &quot;Lone Gunmen&quot; episode and the pre-9/11 &quot;The Coup&quot; record cover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Devan, I found the exact quotes in <a href="http://www.foxscreenings.com/media/pdf/JamesCameronAVATAR.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxscreenings.com/media/pdf/JamesCameronAVATAR.pdf</a></p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>GRACE<br />
They bulldozed a sacred site on purpose,<br />
to trigger a response. They’re<br />
fabricating this war to get what they<br />
want.</p>
<p>NORM<br />
I can’t believe that.</p>
<p>JAKE<br />
Yup. That’s how it’s done. When people<br />
are sitting on shit you want, you make<br />
them your enemy. Then you’re justified in taking it.</p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>And as already noted:</p>
<p>QUARITCH<br />
Our only security lies in preemptive<br />
attack. We will fight terror<br />
with terror.</p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>I incorrectly remembered that the &#8220;make them your enemy&#8221; sentence was said by the evil colonel.</p>
<p>P.S. I understand if you don&#8217;t wish to publish my last lengthy reflections on 9/11. More on topic, however, was my comment about what I&#8217;ve read may be a good proportion of Hollywood luminaries entertaining &#8220;conspiracy views&#8221; about 9/11, and I&#8217;d certainly be interested in reading your thoughts about the pre-9/11 &#8220;Lone Gunmen&#8221; episode and the pre-9/11 &#8220;The Coup&#8221; record cover.</p>
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		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4816</link>
		<dc:creator>Nordic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4816</guid>
		<description>Hello devan,

Thanks for your comments. I&#039;m not an engineer either (although my brother, who agrees with me, is a Master Builder). I base my views mainly on four things in the case of the third skyscraper:

1) It was destroyed in a way that matches the most skilled of controlled demolitions imaginable. Many CDs have even been botched, and I can&#039;t believe that random fires (=the final official explanation) could accomplish what even precisely placed and timed explosives sometimes fail to do.

2) WTC 7&#039;s research material (=the steel debris) was destroyed before investigations began. Yet we are talking about an unprecedented, massive building disaster here! Examining the rather compact debris pile would have revealed the cause and mechanism of the destruction.

3) After various hypotheses over the years and an admission in an interview in 2006 that &quot;We don&#039;t really know... we&#039;ve had trouble getting a handle on building 7&quot;, NIST somehow comes up with the precise cause of the destruction, triggered by a &quot;new phenomenon&quot;, although thermal expansion has hardly been absent in other steel building fires.

4) Three months before the final report at the end of 2008, NIST said that WTC 7 could not have freefalled, as there was always material that needed to be broken, thus slowing down the collapse. After numerous comments and calculations from the truth movement, they acknowledged a period of total freefall of 2.25 seconds during the collapse, meaning that there was absolutely no resistance from the 80 support columns and other building material within the space of ~8 floors.

I&#039;m no engineer, but the above and the many other things I mention on my page make me singularly unable to take the official investigations and explanations seriously. But the over 1,000 architects and engineers of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth agree.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Now that I got going ;-) I think the anthrax attacks, too, should make one weary of the official 9/11 story as well. Arabs were framed for the anthrax letters that soon followed 9/11, but the anthrax strain turned out to be military-grade and led to a US military laboratory. The White House began to take Cipro against anthrax on 9/11, and the two Senators who received the highest-grade letters had been trying to halt the rushing through of the 571-page Patriot Act legislation, largely written *before* 9/11 (of course!).

A recent lengthy article by The Wall Steet Journal concludes that the FBI has been effectively disproven in their attempts to blame the anthrax operation on an individual government scientist:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004575011421223515284.html

Quite revealing, and well worth reading.

Related to the line in Avatar and its possible 9/11 significance: there are actually many famous Hollywood people who have problems with the official 9/11 story, such as Charlie and Martin Sheen, Ed Asner, Daniel Sunjata... - see eg

http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2009/01/rescue-me-chara.html

Talking about Hollywood, what about the Lone Gunmen episode that aired in spring 2001, a few months before 9/11, in which the protagonists realize that the passenger plane had been taken under remote control and was destined to hit the North Tower of WTC in a false-flag operation?

Or the Coup record label designed in the summer preceding 9/11?

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=827

Scroll down to see the real cover and carefully note everything in the cover.

Interesting, no? To me these (and many other things) minimally indicate foreknowledge of what was to come. And I&#039;ve read from reliabilish sources that the CIA has ties with the entertainment business, so I have my suspicions about the source of some of the inspiration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello devan,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. I&#8217;m not an engineer either (although my brother, who agrees with me, is a Master Builder). I base my views mainly on four things in the case of the third skyscraper:</p>
<p>1) It was destroyed in a way that matches the most skilled of controlled demolitions imaginable. Many CDs have even been botched, and I can&#8217;t believe that random fires (=the final official explanation) could accomplish what even precisely placed and timed explosives sometimes fail to do.</p>
<p>2) WTC 7&#8217;s research material (=the steel debris) was destroyed before investigations began. Yet we are talking about an unprecedented, massive building disaster here! Examining the rather compact debris pile would have revealed the cause and mechanism of the destruction.</p>
<p>3) After various hypotheses over the years and an admission in an interview in 2006 that &#8220;We don&#8217;t really know&#8230; we&#8217;ve had trouble getting a handle on building 7&#8243;, NIST somehow comes up with the precise cause of the destruction, triggered by a &#8220;new phenomenon&#8221;, although thermal expansion has hardly been absent in other steel building fires.</p>
<p>4) Three months before the final report at the end of 2008, NIST said that WTC 7 could not have freefalled, as there was always material that needed to be broken, thus slowing down the collapse. After numerous comments and calculations from the truth movement, they acknowledged a period of total freefall of 2.25 seconds during the collapse, meaning that there was absolutely no resistance from the 80 support columns and other building material within the space of ~8 floors.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no engineer, but the above and the many other things I mention on my page make me singularly unable to take the official investigations and explanations seriously. But the over 1,000 architects and engineers of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth agree.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ae911truth.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ae911truth.org/</a></p>
<p>Now that I got going <img src='http://www.devangoldstein.com/dblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I think the anthrax attacks, too, should make one weary of the official 9/11 story as well. Arabs were framed for the anthrax letters that soon followed 9/11, but the anthrax strain turned out to be military-grade and led to a US military laboratory. The White House began to take Cipro against anthrax on 9/11, and the two Senators who received the highest-grade letters had been trying to halt the rushing through of the 571-page Patriot Act legislation, largely written *before* 9/11 (of course!).</p>
<p>A recent lengthy article by The Wall Steet Journal concludes that the FBI has been effectively disproven in their attempts to blame the anthrax operation on an individual government scientist:</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004575011421223515284.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004575011421223515284.html</a></p>
<p>Quite revealing, and well worth reading.</p>
<p>Related to the line in Avatar and its possible 9/11 significance: there are actually many famous Hollywood people who have problems with the official 9/11 story, such as Charlie and Martin Sheen, Ed Asner, Daniel Sunjata&#8230; &#8211; see eg</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2009/01/rescue-me-chara.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.kansascity.com/tvbarn/2009/01/rescue-me-chara.html</a></p>
<p>Talking about Hollywood, what about the Lone Gunmen episode that aired in spring 2001, a few months before 9/11, in which the protagonists realize that the passenger plane had been taken under remote control and was destined to hit the North Tower of WTC in a false-flag operation?</p>
<p>Or the Coup record label designed in the summer preceding 9/11?</p>
<p><a href="http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=827" rel="nofollow">http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=827</a></p>
<p>Scroll down to see the real cover and carefully note everything in the cover.</p>
<p>Interesting, no? To me these (and many other things) minimally indicate foreknowledge of what was to come. And I&#8217;ve read from reliabilish sources that the CIA has ties with the entertainment business, so I have my suspicions about the source of some of the inspiration.</p>
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		<title>By: devan</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4815</link>
		<dc:creator>devan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4815</guid>
		<description>Read your piece just now. Interesting stuff, to be sure, though I&#039;m wholly unqualified to comment on the characteristics of buildings in free-fall, etc.

But let&#039;s follow the argument for a moment. For your point about &lt;cite&gt;Avatar&lt;/cite&gt; to hold water, not only would you have to be right about building 7, but somehow, James Cameron or some other high-ranking member of the production crew would need also to believe in a U.S. government &quot;false flag&quot; role in the 9/11 attacks—&lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; to be able to slip the line in there unnoticed. (It would probably be important for us now to figure out the exact wording of the line, and also the context for the line at that point in the film.)

Just my thoughts, but it seems to me that this being some kind of deliberate statement on the &quot;false flag&quot; hypothesis would mean an awful lot of unlikely people thinking about 9/11 in this way.

(I say &quot;unlikely&quot; because of the predominantly liberal views in Hollywood and because of megalomaniacal Cameron&#039;s own more or less avowedly liberal position—and because of the high correlation, in the U.S., between conservatism and 9/11 conspiracy beliefs.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read your piece just now. Interesting stuff, to be sure, though I&#8217;m wholly unqualified to comment on the characteristics of buildings in free-fall, etc.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s follow the argument for a moment. For your point about <cite>Avatar</cite> to hold water, not only would you have to be right about building 7, but somehow, James Cameron or some other high-ranking member of the production crew would need also to believe in a U.S. government &#8220;false flag&#8221; role in the 9/11 attacks—<em>and</em> to be able to slip the line in there unnoticed. (It would probably be important for us now to figure out the exact wording of the line, and also the context for the line at that point in the film.)</p>
<p>Just my thoughts, but it seems to me that this being some kind of deliberate statement on the &#8220;false flag&#8221; hypothesis would mean an awful lot of unlikely people thinking about 9/11 in this way.</p>
<p>(I say &#8220;unlikely&#8221; because of the predominantly liberal views in Hollywood and because of megalomaniacal Cameron&#8217;s own more or less avowedly liberal position—and because of the high correlation, in the U.S., between conservatism and 9/11 conspiracy beliefs.)</p>
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		<title>By: devan</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4814</link>
		<dc:creator>devan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4814</guid>
		<description>Hi, Nordic -- Thanks for your thoughts, and for your clear expression of them. Definitely interesting to hear your perspective, and I will look at the information you&#039;ve provided. I&#039;m not an engineer, so I may not be able to make much of the &quot;Active Thermitic Material…&quot; article you provide, but your own article should be a little easier for me to get through!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Nordic &#8212; Thanks for your thoughts, and for your clear expression of them. Definitely interesting to hear your perspective, and I will look at the information you&#8217;ve provided. I&#8217;m not an engineer, so I may not be able to make much of the &#8220;Active Thermitic Material…&#8221; article you provide, but your own article should be a little easier for me to get through!</p>
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		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4813</link>
		<dc:creator>Nordic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4813</guid>
		<description>True, the line has more to do with the overall logic of the &quot;war on terror&quot; than with 9/11 in itself. However, I think the &quot;we will MAKE you our enemy and then we can&quot; part fits that overall context. Thanks for your comment.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding 9/11. I&#039;ve studied false flag operations and 9/11 for several years now (I recently had an article about them published in Finland&#039;s largest newspaper &quot;Helsingin Sanomat&quot;, with comments about 9/11 too), and to my great chagrin I&#039;ve concluded that 9/11 is also one of them (and I&#039;m not saying that the *US government* was behind them). But this obviously is not the place to go into that debate, although I wish to point out that evidence pointing to &quot;9/11 false flag&quot; has been published on a large number of respectable forums too, including peer-reviewed engineering journals - see, for example

&quot;Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe&quot;

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

I know, and have been personally in contact with, a lot of truthers on numerous walks of life - academics, physicists, engineers, architects, lawyers... - and I can say that they are actually very &quot;down-to-earth&quot; folks, none of whom would *like* to believe anything else than the official narrative.

If you wish to understand (and I understand that you may not be so inclined) just one of the many reasons why I cannot believe in the official 9/11 conspiracy theory, feel free to have a look at my article at
http://11syyskuu.blogspot.com/2006/02/destruction-of-wtc-7.html

(My contact info can be found at the bottom.)

Thanks again for your cordial reply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, the line has more to do with the overall logic of the &#8220;war on terror&#8221; than with 9/11 in itself. However, I think the &#8220;we will MAKE you our enemy and then we can&#8221; part fits that overall context. Thanks for your comment.</p>
<p>You are entitled to your opinion regarding 9/11. I&#8217;ve studied false flag operations and 9/11 for several years now (I recently had an article about them published in Finland&#8217;s largest newspaper &#8220;Helsingin Sanomat&#8221;, with comments about 9/11 too), and to my great chagrin I&#8217;ve concluded that 9/11 is also one of them (and I&#8217;m not saying that the *US government* was behind them). But this obviously is not the place to go into that debate, although I wish to point out that evidence pointing to &#8220;9/11 false flag&#8221; has been published on a large number of respectable forums too, including peer-reviewed engineering journals &#8211; see, for example</p>
<p>&#8220;Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM" rel="nofollow">http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM</a></p>
<p>I know, and have been personally in contact with, a lot of truthers on numerous walks of life &#8211; academics, physicists, engineers, architects, lawyers&#8230; &#8211; and I can say that they are actually very &#8220;down-to-earth&#8221; folks, none of whom would *like* to believe anything else than the official narrative.</p>
<p>If you wish to understand (and I understand that you may not be so inclined) just one of the many reasons why I cannot believe in the official 9/11 conspiracy theory, feel free to have a look at my article at<br />
<a href="http://11syyskuu.blogspot.com/2006/02/destruction-of-wtc-7.html" rel="nofollow">http://11syyskuu.blogspot.com/2006/02/destruction-of-wtc-7.html</a></p>
<p>(My contact info can be found at the bottom.)</p>
<p>Thanks again for your cordial reply.</p>
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		<title>By: devan</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4812</link>
		<dc:creator>devan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4812</guid>
		<description>Nordic, I don&#039;t see the connection to the false flag operations. Unlike the line you refer to, those were covert, weren&#039;t they? And mostly in World War II and the Cold War?

I don&#039;t remember the line you mention, but taking you at your word, the main bad guy in &lt;cite&gt;Avatar&lt;/cite&gt; is being anything but covert. He&#039;s just issuing a threatening ultimatum, straightforwardly. He&#039;s not saying, &quot;We&#039;re going to pretend to be someone we&#039;re not&quot; (as in the false flag ops).

But perhaps I&#039;m not understanding your brief, tightly-packed comment. Feel free to elaborate.

Also, I do notice some suggestions online of false flag operations surrounding 9/11, but those seem to come from websites lacking enough in credibility that I doubt a bunch of mainstream American Hollywood filmmakers would lend them much credence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nordic, I don&#8217;t see the connection to the false flag operations. Unlike the line you refer to, those were covert, weren&#8217;t they? And mostly in World War II and the Cold War?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember the line you mention, but taking you at your word, the main bad guy in <cite>Avatar</cite> is being anything but covert. He&#8217;s just issuing a threatening ultimatum, straightforwardly. He&#8217;s not saying, &#8220;We&#8217;re going to pretend to be someone we&#8217;re not&#8221; (as in the false flag ops).</p>
<p>But perhaps I&#8217;m not understanding your brief, tightly-packed comment. Feel free to elaborate.</p>
<p>Also, I do notice some suggestions online of false flag operations surrounding 9/11, but those seem to come from websites lacking enough in credibility that I doubt a bunch of mainstream American Hollywood filmmakers would lend them much credence.</p>
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		<title>By: Nordic</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4811</link>
		<dc:creator>Nordic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4811</guid>
		<description>The main bad guy in Avatar also says something like (I don&#039;t remember the exact words, but it&#039;s something like this): &quot;If you don&#039;t give us what we want, we will make you our enemy, and then we can come and get what we want.&quot; (an abvious reference to the numerous historical false flag operations)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main bad guy in Avatar also says something like (I don&#8217;t remember the exact words, but it&#8217;s something like this): &#8220;If you don&#8217;t give us what we want, we will make you our enemy, and then we can come and get what we want.&#8221; (an abvious reference to the numerous historical false flag operations)</p>
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		<title>By: devan</title>
		<link>http://www.devangoldstein.com/379/avatar-post-911-film/comment-page-1/#comment-4797</link>
		<dc:creator>devan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.devangoldstein.com/?p=379#comment-4797</guid>
		<description>Some of this seems a little too conspiratorial to me, but I guess you never know…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of this seems a little too conspiratorial to me, but I guess you never know…</p>
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